Paint Basket Art Forum

Oil Painting => Oil Painting General Chat => Topic started by: jocearseno on August 03, 2013, 10:27:35 PM

Title: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: jocearseno on August 03, 2013, 10:27:35 PM
A technique question?  :confused:


Can I use masking fluid (Pebeo drawing gum) on a canvas under oil paint to keep a part of my drawing  :crazy2: ?


Josh :whistle:
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: Maryna on August 04, 2013, 06:05:10 AM
You CAN NOT use masking fluid under oils. The only way to mask off with oils if you use clear cover or even masking tape.
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: jocearseno on August 04, 2013, 05:42:52 PM
Thanks Maryna, but I wanted to be sure so I made a test this morning and the masking fluid from Pebeo adhere pretty well on the canvas and is not disturbed at all by oil paint and a big brush. My painting will be very complicated and it is impossible to use masking tape and cut with a rasor blade without cutting the canvas under it.


Thanks again for the help


Josh
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: Germa on August 04, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
According to this (http://www.ehow.co.uk/info_8177268_artist-techniques-masking-oil-paint.html) website, it's possible when you just want to mask of your canvas, but when I read how to remove it, you will lose your detailed drawing too.  :idiot2:
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: jocearseno on August 04, 2013, 07:25:11 PM
Hello Germa,


Glad to know that you are so aware after your surgery and recovering.


I made a test on a small canvas 14 x 16 inches with the wet on wet technique using a 1 1/2 inche (37mm) and applying the liquid white oil plus 3 colors over my drawing protected with the Pebeo masking liquid and nothing was removed or painted. After I partialy removed the masking liquid and my test drawing was there with all the lines.
It is a not very well detailed boat on a calm sea with 2 flying birds.
When it is completly dry, I will remove the balance of the masking fluid to fid all my lines

You can remove it with your fingers...or


So, I can confirm that it does work :smart:  .


Josh  :yippee:




Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: Val on August 04, 2013, 07:34:14 PM
Brilliant Josh!  :clap: :clap: :clap: Nothing like a little experiment in the lab!  ;D Glad it worked for you, the painting looks excellent so far. O0
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: jocearseno on August 04, 2013, 08:02:07 PM
Hi Val and thanks for the comment.
I was looking at your pictures and I will ask you if I can borrow one of your brown pelican on your boat for my project.


If you ever have the chance to take a picture of Edgar the Egret sleeping on one leg,,, you know who is interested... :whistle: 


My girlfriend liked my first part so much that she wanted to have it completed for herself :knuppel2:   .  So, I gladly acknowledge :whistle:   , and add the clouds.....immediately, the boat to be finished this week she gladly said :tickedoff: .


Josh


Have a nice day,
Josh :painting:
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: nolan on August 05, 2013, 09:04:51 PM
it will work if your paint is very thin, but the minute you have body (thickness) to the paint it will not work.
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: jocearseno on August 06, 2013, 12:56:03 AM
Thanks Nolan,


Do you think that thick paint will rip off ? I think so but wet on wet background is very very thin and I mean only the background sky not the trees or rocks.


Josh


 


Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: nolan on August 06, 2013, 08:27:00 PM
two reasons -
1) if the paint is thick you will paint over the masking fluid and not even be able to see it
2) the paint is elastic so will rip

Thin layer like you would use for portraits or sky could work.

Even though it takes longer to apply I prefer to use the clear cover for my masks
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: jocearseno on August 06, 2013, 11:05:18 PM
I do not know "Clear Cover"  :confused: .


What is clear cover ?


Josh
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: Germa on August 07, 2013, 08:22:02 AM
the stuff you can buy in book stores to cover books.
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: nolan on August 07, 2013, 09:05:54 PM
HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Kittrich-Rolled-Adhesive-Bookcover-03-750-12/dp/B001GIJNVC/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1375909512&sr=1-1&keywords=clear+book+covers)
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: jocearseno on August 07, 2013, 11:49:42 PM
Thanks for the answer and as I do not have children, this is an item I never tought of.


Here is my test completed on this 12 x 14 inches canvas. The masking liquid did the job but, you have to wait until it is very dried.

Not easy to do small subjects on small canvas because I never did much.  O0


Josh  :painting:
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: nolan on August 08, 2013, 08:50:19 PM
Great job Josh  :clap: :clap: :clap:

Just a little tip when doing reflections - the water looks wetter and more realistic if it isn't a perfect copy of the actual object. Squiggle the edges, and distort the reflection as though the water is rippling in the wind

I explain how to do it in THIS  (http://www.paintbasket.com/paintbaskettv/online-art-class.php?class=lakes,-rivers-and-waterfalls-pt1-187)class and even though they are watercolour classes, Dennis does an awesome job explaining how to do it in this series HERE  (http://www.paintbasket.com/paintbaskettv/online-art-class.php?class=reflections-in-water-158)and HERE (http://www.paintbasket.com/paintbaskettv/online-art-class.php?class=reflections-part-2-164)

PS - I hope you don't mind but I have split this off of your portrait course paintings into it's own topic as I feel a lot of folks will benefit from your experiment, but nobody will find it buried inside the portrait thread
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: MSWcrane on August 08, 2013, 11:36:38 PM
Nolan, when using Clear Cover do you cut it out like masking tape, after you apply, or do you trace onto it and cut out before applying?
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: stoney on August 09, 2013, 01:20:31 AM
A technique question?  :confused:


Can I use masking fluid (Pebeo drawing gum) on a canvas under oil paint to keep a part of my drawing  :crazy2: ?


Josh :whistle:

You mean on a very temporary basis like being able to correct an area around the portion masked that's been painted?  Yes, I've done this using the same stuff used in water color.

If you're meaning over the actual drawing, no.
Title: Re: Re: Josh's Portait Painting Course
Post by: stoney on August 09, 2013, 01:27:31 AM
You CAN NOT use masking fluid under oils. The only way to mask off with oils if you use clear cover or even masking tape.

Sure you can.  I've done it.  Simply use care in the removal of the masking fluid later.
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: Germa on August 09, 2013, 08:31:01 AM
Nolan, when using Clear Cover do you cut it out like masking tape, after you apply, or do you trace onto it and cut out before applying?

In the classes I have seen, Nolan cuts it out like masking tape.
Maybe it would be possible to trace/draw onto the paper on the back, a mirror image, and cut it out before applying, but I don't think that would be easier since that clear cover tends to be very curly.
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: dennis on August 09, 2013, 09:32:10 PM
My personal opinion and experience:

Masking fluid was designed primarily for watercolours and NOT for oil painting.
Nolan and I, through the years, have had greater success with masking tape and transparent clear cover than with masking fluid.

If you are using canvas board (panels) then it does not matter if you cut slightly into the canvas,
If you are using stretched canvas on a frame then, to minimize the chance of cutting through I ALWAYS place a  book or a large flat object under the areas to be cut and then gently and carefully cut the tape and clear cover. Up to date I have never once cut through a stretched canvas.

Practice on an old scrap painting until you get the feel of it. In the end it is much better than masking fluid. The secret is to have a very sharp craft knife.

Another point: It is also very easy to miss some areas when removing masking fluid - and because oil and rubber do not go well together a chemical reaction will take place and destroy a part of the painting even months after completing the painting - a great problem if you have already sold the painting. That happened to me once many years ago.
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: MSWcrane on August 09, 2013, 11:18:57 PM
 :thankyou: Germa
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: stoney on August 10, 2013, 05:50:45 PM
My personal opinion and experience:

Masking fluid was designed primarily for watercolours and NOT for oil painting.
Nolan and I, through the years, have had greater success with masking tape and transparent clear cover than with masking fluid.

If you are using canvas board (panels) then it does not matter if you cut slightly into the canvas,
If you are using stretched canvas on a frame then, to minimize the chance of cutting through I ALWAYS place a  book or a large flat object under the areas to be cut and then gently and carefully cut the tape and clear cover. Up to date I have never once cut through a stretched canvas.

Practice on an old scrap painting until you get the feel of it. In the end it is much better than masking fluid. The secret is to have a very sharp craft knife.

Another point: It is also very easy to miss some areas when removing masking fluid - and because oil and rubber do not go well together a chemical reaction will take place and destroy a part of the painting even months after completing the painting - a great problem if you have already sold the painting. That happened to me once many years ago.

You mean even after all the masking fluid had been removed?

This is the first I've heard of Clear Cover.
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: dennis on August 10, 2013, 07:33:22 PM
Quote
It is also very easy to miss some areas when removing masking fluid

Even in watercolours it is possible to miss out on removing masking fluid. With oils it is much easier to not see to remove masking fluid under the wet paint.

Clear Cover is just one of the trade names for the transparent rolls used for covering and protecting books. Can normally be bought at any stationary shop.
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: jocearseno on August 11, 2013, 04:46:08 AM
 :thankyou:  to all of you and Nolan for placing my subject at the right place.


With the clear cover and the kind of drawing I have to cover it would be an evil task. I just want to preserve my drawing on the canvas, make my background and then paint my details. Dennis, the Pebeo masking fluid is grey and with paint on it I can clearly see it and my drawing is made with dark color pencil and I left place for enlarging my subject a little if needed.


Yes Nolan the sea will not be a complete mirror


My test up to now, prove that you do not have to put a heavy film of masking fluid because thick patches may lift with a 2 inches bristle brush with the wet on wet technique because you have to spread your paint or mix it with wide brush stroke but not much pressure. If the masking fluid make small particles, you have to remove it and clean your brush at once and then resume.


I did my test and now I am working on my technique and also on finding the right colors before starting my 30 x 30 inches canvas painting.


 :thankyou:  again and it is fun to have that kind of debate.


Josh  :painting:
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: stoney on August 11, 2013, 04:51:53 PM
Quote
It is also very easy to miss some areas when removing masking fluid

Even in watercolours it is possible to miss out on removing masking fluid. With oils it is much easier to not see to remove masking fluid under the wet paint.

Clear Cover is just one of the trade names for the transparent rolls used for covering and protecting books. Can normally be bought at any stationary shop.

I had let the oil paint touch dry before removing the masking fluid.

Thanks, Dennis.  I'm archiving your post here about clear cover.
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: nolan on August 12, 2013, 09:03:52 PM
There are two ways to use the clear cover:
1) draw your shape in reverse on the back, cut out and apply to the canvas
2) draw the scene on the canvas, cut out a rectangle of clear cover that will cover the shape you need to protect, apply to the canvas, carefully cut out the shape with a very sharp craft knife - being careful to only cut the clear cover and not through the canvas
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: liz on August 13, 2013, 05:27:47 PM
Nolan, can you just use a fine point sharpie and draw on the front side of the clear cover?


Liz
Title: Re: Using masking fuild on an oil painting
Post by: nolan on August 13, 2013, 08:29:46 PM
not sure if the sharpie ink will stick, try it and let us know
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal