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Oil Painting => Oil Painting General Chat => Topic started by: patindaytona on September 11, 2011, 11:09:58 PM

Title: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 11, 2011, 11:09:58 PM
Kind of thinking of doing this one. The more I do, the more I realize it's not going to end up looking anything like the photo. Is this a good choice for a painting? Would you change anything in it? I have not done many foliage paintings...a couple. Just not sure about which of my brushes to use. Big, medium?? If I start in the background, should I also use that same brush for ALL the foliage right up to the foreground (having a uniform texture/detail)?
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 11, 2011, 11:24:37 PM
Beautiful subject! Unfortunately the water foam has been enhanced and is not real looking.
I've seen many photos that are being done this way with the water, lately.
Photographers and their filters can do wonders today.

Question I have, if this was painted, should the center be off set to the right or left a little more?
I'm thinking of our 9 square grid or 4 point perspective 'rule'.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: liz on September 12, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
Hi Pat, good to see you doing a nature scene for a change!  It's a nice picture as is, but if a change was needed I would maybe move the waterfall slightly left since the water above is coming from the right side.  Painting rocks under the water's surface may be a challenge though.  I may forget about rocks and put some foliage in the foreground to do less water.  And I would make some splashes/sprays of water where the falls come down than the hazy stuff.  Thanks for asking!

BTW my last picture was an original flower painting.  Now I want to do a lush rain forest type scene, with a stream or waterfall. . . :gl2: :painting:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 12, 2011, 12:26:12 AM
Not sure yet if I'll do this, if I do maybe in a few days. Can you post your flower painting Liz? I'm just worried about clumping all the foliage till it looks like one huge mass. I can shift the pool somewhat I suppose. Thegrindre...yes, I used a tripod for this shot so the water feathered. Their's not alot of falling water, so I can improvise. Hardest part is starting it.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 12, 2011, 12:52:14 AM
Oh my, Pat, I didn't know you took the shot. It's still beautiful. I love it!

Question I have to all photographers is, if you paint also and plan to paint it, why don't you take the shot or pictures with the center of interest off to the right or left as we're taught to paint it??? Doing this would seem logical for those of us that like to paint from photos.
Would taking a shot off to the side destroy the rules of photography?

Just curious is all. (I know nothing about photography.)

Thanks,
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: liz on September 13, 2011, 05:39:25 AM
Hi Pat,  I put the flower picture with 'First Paintings' and I was only kidding about using your waterfall photo!  I hope you get started on it! :gl2:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 14, 2011, 01:50:30 PM
Liz, I'm still not sure where to find your painting at. "First Paintings"? I don't meander much in this site other than here in the forum.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 14, 2011, 05:19:39 PM
I'm going to put this one on hold. I had too much frustration fixing, adjusting, on and on with the last sunset paintings. Time off till the big one (flowers tutorial). I might attempt two of them also...maybe.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: liz on September 14, 2011, 05:34:54 PM
Be patient with yourself, Pat.  The mood, impression is more important that going for perfection! :gl: :painting:

Anyway, the flower painting is under "First Seascape Painting and other firsts"
something like that. :flowers: :)
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 15, 2011, 04:00:31 PM
I don't know Liz. I looked, but I give up. Don't know where to go to find that link to your painting.
I like you thoughts on painting. I keep dwelling on all the paintings I ruined because I didn't leave it after 10 hours, but instead progressively made it worse till I gave up after 30 hours and several. Somehow I have to leave that behind me and I still think it's ok to do the fiddling to an extent, but it's like playing with fire. You really end up not wanting to leave it alone once you've made it worse and the more time you've spent, it's almost impossible.
I am a little better at keeping a close eye on not letting things get bigger (expand beyond the bounderies of the original outline). And overall, I don't spend 20 hours...now it's just 4-5 retouching.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: nolan on September 15, 2011, 07:27:34 PM
You are gradually getting rid of the fiddling Pat, we are very proud of your progress so far, keep it up, you are on the right track  :yippee: :beer:

HERE  (http://www.paintbasket.com/members/index.php/topic,593.msg7770.html#msg7770)is the flower painting done by Liz that you were looking for O0
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 16, 2011, 12:27:08 AM
You've come a long way Pat. Believe it or not, you are actually calmer than when I first joined here. Plus...your painting is improving leaps and bounds.  :clap:
Give yourself some credit here and a clap on the back!  :clap: (its all I could find)  :congrats:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 16, 2011, 03:52:58 PM
Thank you Val. Sometimes I actually take in those encouraging comments like yours if you know what I mean :whistle: Really though, I could not do it without them. You know today's world...so much anxiety and everything. It's really hard to sit STILL and paint with all of that going on in one's mind. If you have the desire, you can do it one step at a time. It's not easy though. Trying to be real, not complaining. Here's my fish I caught this morning. I haven't been fishing in while. It's a "redfish". They are good to eat. No going to paint him, just eat him.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: liz on September 16, 2011, 06:24:06 PM
So Pat, fishing is the next best thing to do after art!  :clap: I love to fish with a hand line from a boat or small bamboo pole from a pier.  That is one prize fish you caught!  :yippee:  ::) You're probably preparing it right now, and I would enjoy your cooking since I can't both clean and eat the same fish I caught!  ::)
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 16, 2011, 06:26:57 PM
Thanks Liz. Thing is....everyone can fish. Not everyone can be an artist. Yes, probably eat it tonight, not sure, maybe tomorrow. What water do you fish Liz? I'm on the atlantic coast of Florida. I fish from the shore though..no boat.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: liz on September 16, 2011, 07:50:20 PM
Hi Pat,  we have the Pacific Ocean surrounding our islands.  I live on Oahu, but in the city.  I haven't fished in a coon's age. I put a picture for you called 'Creation Art' under Oil Painting- Encourager Session.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 16, 2011, 08:58:49 PM
Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot you mentioned Hawaii. A close friend of mine used to live there for about 20 years. I forgot the island or city. Big island and one of the famous cities.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 16, 2011, 09:17:23 PM
 :eek: Did you say 'everyone can fish?' That is true..BUT..not everyone can catch a fish! After floating about down here on the boat Lloyd (hubby) has not caught a one. Zilch, zero. Good thing I fish!  ;D

That looks like some fine eating Pat.  :licklips:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 16, 2011, 09:37:00 PM
I bet you have some incredible fishing where you are Val. I know they get BIG down there.
Somebody help me out with my "Selling" post. The lady will want to know soon how much I want for it.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 16, 2011, 09:47:43 PM
We see some fantastic fish down here, good eating most of the time.

Its the one's that cruise around with a hungry eye and bigger teeth than mine that boost my swimming skills!  :heeha:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: nolan on September 16, 2011, 10:12:00 PM
tin foil, tomato, onions, garlic, spices, butter and some embers is all that fish needs  :licklips:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 16, 2011, 10:22:13 PM
You're hired!!  :licklips:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 16, 2011, 10:32:02 PM
I know Nolan's fished. New Zealand? Com' on!
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 16, 2011, 11:39:02 PM
He, he, I'm one of those guys that love fishing but never catch anything. Everybody else does but I always come home empty handed.
I just hate it when that happens...  :tickedoff:
Title: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 26, 2011, 12:54:01 PM
I guess I will start this one. I moved the whole little waterfall to the right a little bit more. I hope not too much. Do you think it's compositionally right? Always like to do a very very little to start with for the first day or two. Then, once it's at least got a beginning, excitement builds up from there and I can deal with it more. Maybe I'll put in some of the water to begin with today. Going to check out the Hobby Lobby and see if I can get those little stretchers for the canvas and also maybe they have the 16 x20 canvases themselves.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 26, 2011, 05:13:00 PM
Got the waterfall started anyways. I'm never very careful about mixing. I did pre-mix some rocks colors, but really ended up just dipping into the different pre-mixes without cleaning my brush...for the rocks, and also for some of the foliage and really everything. On the other hand, this is nature, and you need lots of different "intermixes", so I suppose that not cleaning my brush at all was not such a bad idea for these things (variation).
Going to try and not fuss much with it. At least the water is pretty done and rocks. Didn't start the waterfall itself yet. I'll just let it all dry now for a few days.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: liz on September 26, 2011, 07:50:35 PM
Can't wait to see your waterfall painting, Pat! :painting:
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: nolan on September 26, 2011, 07:53:18 PM
looking forward to seeing the progress O0
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 26, 2011, 08:03:29 PM
I'm sittin' on the edge of my seat, too.  :)
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 26, 2011, 08:50:45 PM
It's funny, everytime I do a painting, I always look back and think, why didn't I pay more attention to detail. I bet we all do that. I "scuffed in" the shoreline with very vague suggestions of rocks. That's what I mean. Maybe that's how it's done...you suggest roughly the shoreline and rocks and then go back again detailing anything such as specific rocks more. I doubt if you're supposed to do anything but suggest at first...you're just filling up the canvas and getting broad things in...locations and shapes. On the other hand, i don't want to make too much detail (save for the focal area of the waterfall).  Since it's far in the background, I guess you'd still make it pretty detailed anyways and not soft and fuzzy. I get kind of confused about a focal area in the background vrs a foreground. Focal areas should be sharper edges, more contrast, etc...but foreground also are supposed to have some of those thing too, right? (more saturation, etc)...yet I don't want one to compete with the other. I've read a ton of info on these things....now what's the difference between them again?
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 26, 2011, 08:52:33 PM
Nolan, you know how I always try to save everything till it's totally done. I do that with my wife too..if she comes upstairs, I do NOT want her seeing it because I might screw it up still....and won't show it till finished. I don't want praise only to find out I get severely :whistle: dissapointed after that.
I guess I can post it as what I've done on it so far just today...give me an hour..
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 26, 2011, 09:10:25 PM
Here's an idea. Try moving the falls closer to the foreground while eliminating most of the present foreground by adding more water. That should help your focal point issue.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 26, 2011, 09:39:42 PM
Ok...so far.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: thegrindre on September 26, 2011, 09:54:26 PM
 :D That's lookin' pretty good, Pat. I'm impressed, for what it's worth.  :)
You've captured that green water excellently.  O0
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: Val on September 26, 2011, 09:56:57 PM
Pat, you just mystify me how you can paint something that looks so good, so quickly. One day I will paint pictures like this.  :clap:
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 26, 2011, 10:03:02 PM
thegrinde..in the other topic of waterfall, you can see I've already started it. Should be ok, by the time i'm done.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 26, 2011, 10:05:12 PM
Thanks Thegrinde and Val. The painting itself looks better..it's kind of off and also dark here. I'll take more time on it when it's completed. I'm already fussed with it here and there, but I need to know when to stop not so much by how it looks, but also by how much time I keep spending on same things.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: nolan on September 27, 2011, 12:18:38 AM
the water is really looking great Pat, it got that nice luminosity to it O0
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 12:21:05 AM
Thanks Nolan...i know what you mean. I can see that too. I probably wouldn't have know what to look for 8 months ago....it IS dark here and looks much better in the painting. Besides that, when I paint in the rest..it's pretty dark, so that will make that water really look richer in color and lighter too.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: liz on September 27, 2011, 12:36:17 AM
The water and rocks look like they're coming along pretty good!  It's interesting how different people have painting styles.  I usually get rid of all the white on the canvas by painting in background colors; I know someone who starts right smack in the middle and works outward, and some like me work around every part of the painting, refining each part until final details, harmonizing colors as I go along, etc.  O0  I wonder what Nolan and Dennis have to say about painting
styles?
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 12:40:10 AM
Liz, I just kind of went by what I saw in this particular painting..I knew the pond part had to be first since the surrounding leaves would over lap it. Then next is the little waterfall because the final background leaves again will overlap all around it's edges. On another painting, I might start completely with the background (like the sky, mountains, water we did on the video). As for me, I don't have any formula as far as that goes, just kind of think ahead like this and NOT too much thinking, just dive in.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: Kelley on September 27, 2011, 04:04:59 AM
Pat, did you achieve the luminescence by putting a lighter undercoat or thinning the paint... or both?
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 02:48:47 PM
Kelley, I just painted the correct color I saw for the water over a white canvas. Wasn't too fixated on trying to get it thin or anything. I also "discovered" or mayby just remembered out of the past that when I added a little more yellow to the shoreline areas, because it's shallow there, and will tend to have a different color (not as dark blue)
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 03:00:57 PM
Did a little more today, fiddled alot pretty much going nowhere with that. Have the whole canvas covered now. It's scarey not really sure about what I'm doing. Way too much detail to look at the photo, but I got the idea anyway.
Very generalizing or it would take forever. I always paint till my room is a mess (about an hour). Things progressively spiral that way from the start and it's good to just stop when it gets that bad..not so much out of frustration, but just a good time to quit for the day. Like Dennis said, a mess contributes to frustration.
It's far from having that clean look like Nolan does on the sunset etc. But every artist has his own way and many will do quite "spontaneous" looking paintings. I mix into all the different piles of paint I've premixed (browns, greens mostly), and it doesn't matter because you want that variation..no sense in cleaning a brush for this type of painting. I have seen many artist work just that way. I'll honestly say it's an uncomfortable feeling though to just try this and try that, but something's got to become of it eventually. It like the clean accuracy that Nolan does too...so both methods are good.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: Val on September 27, 2011, 03:33:43 PM
In Viequez, Spanish Virgin Islands (PR), they have a couple of luminescent bays. At night the anchorage actually glows, looks somewhat similar to the water you have painted, with tiny points of greenish light. A bit eerie at times but beautiful. That's what your picture reminds me of thus far.  :clap:
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 04:28:59 PM
Val..I once went to Jamaica...unbelievable "green/blue" water. Just so luminous and colorful. I know you know that.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: Val on September 27, 2011, 04:38:20 PM
Hope to be stopping there when we head south from PR. Just have to be sure we are down in Bonaire/Curacao by start of hurricane season next year. Hoping to make Cartegena for next christmas.
I love the colours of the water in the caribbean, its magical.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 04:48:52 PM
Dennis once said something like, go slow with painting. The speed will come with time. That is pretty much what I'm doing. I paint only an hour or so most of the time before I start creating a mess and feeling like I am loosing control of things. Then, I clean up for the day. This creates that feeling of less frustration and IN control (more order) the next day again, rather than pushing it.
This is taking it slow, and not going for speed.
It's kind of like when you're cooking...alot of dirty dishes, the counter is full of different ingrediants..a mess. Doesn't it feel good to have cooked something nice, and then cleaned up the place spotless again? That is what makes a good start to begin something again.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: liz on September 27, 2011, 06:25:44 PM
Sounds like you're a changed man, Pat! O0 :painting:
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 09:10:47 PM
I'm done with the waterfall painting. I will just take one last look at it tomorrow. I fiddled a long time in one or two areas as usual. Thing is with paintings like this where their's alot of spontaneous things going on (twigs, branches, rocks...water), it's a fast painting. Things aren't and shouldn't be critical. It's kind of like using a large brush for a sky or water...you just do it fast or it won't work. It doesn't mean a fast painting isn't as good as one that took a long time to do. It is just the nature of the painting. Not like the tulip or rose. You suggest alot more with landscapes and distant leaves, rocks. Can't be done slow. I'll post tomorrow.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 27, 2011, 09:54:27 PM
Sounds like you're a changed man, Pat! O0 :painting:
Oh brother.. :whistle: ;D
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: thegrindre on September 27, 2011, 10:19:53 PM
Cool, I'm dying to see it Pat.  :hang:
No, really I am...
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: Kelley on September 28, 2011, 01:05:44 AM
Thanks for the reply Pat. I like the effect just by adding yellow.

You've come a long way and I commend you Pat.  I am several months if not years behind you.  It may not seem like it, but you are a fast learner - at least to me you are. 

Being analytical teaches theory while application and practice lead to habits and better experience.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 28, 2011, 02:26:23 AM
Thanks Kelley. I might analyze alot, but I am a very very restless impatient person and when I do a painting, I feel like i'm rushing to get it done as fast as I can, so I don't take my time on alot of things when doing a painting like I should. Only when I call it done, do I then think, I should HAVE....then I start fiddling on things that should have been done during the progress of the painting. On Nolan's Tulip and Sunset paintings I could follow him well because I just didn't feel "alone"??....I was following somebody who showed me alot of how to do them. Well, at least it's a good sign...i can do it if i try. But when I do my own thing, it is more difficult to ..maybe the word here is... "believe" in yourself. I have felt I've been getting a little more confidence the past few paintings and once you feel that, you do tend to take a little more time because you believe in your own outcome a little bit more than before. I hope I can encourage  you and others with any insight I might have as someone who didn't believe he could ever get any better, but did. (i don't know that 100% yet, but it seems that way the past 5-6 paintings).
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: Kelley on September 28, 2011, 03:05:01 AM
I understand the restlessness and perhaps "perfectionist" in myself.  I don't rush myself, but rather walk away for a while as a discipline.  So, in a way, having been at work so many long (12 to 17 hour days) days has been a boon.  Perhaps the reason why I haven't been able to complete a couple of my paintings was I couldn't find the shadows and highlights yet (along with not having time :whistle: ).  With Nolan and Dennis' instructions and other artists encouragement/fellowship I feel more confident to go beyond what I know how to do.

Looking forward to seeing your waterfall again.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: Val on September 28, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
Looking forward to seeing your waterfall Pat. Do please continue to post your progress on your paintings, and you also Kelley. It helps me in that I cannot see the videos so I spend time scouring the site for information on how to do different things. Thanks to you both and everyone else.  :clap:
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 28, 2011, 03:14:03 PM
Ok, I'm done...fiddled enough. I suppose you have to fiddle to an extent (fiddling is really a grey area....not hard defined definition except when you realize you're spending way too much time on it. It's always some little area...that's what i did alright...did it get any better? Not really.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: liz on September 28, 2011, 06:53:50 PM
Great job on your representation!  I like that you reduced the size of the big rocks in the right foreground and how you painted the rocks in an impressionistic style!  The composition is perfect and I love the colors! :clap: O0
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: patindaytona on September 28, 2011, 07:16:10 PM
Thanks Liz. I have posted this 4 times so far. I keep going back and touching up the waterfall. I posted it again since your comment. I basically touched up some water again and this time added a little Burnt Umber around the fall area for warmth (their wasn't any b.umber anywhere else), so this adds a little more saturation to the focal area. It's a little bit fuzzy..the photo of the painting..it's not the painting that's fuzzy.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 28, 2011, 08:45:35 PM
Kind of an old post, so I hope nobody minds I put it here. Played around alot on the water, etc etc. But the one thing that did help a little was adding the B.Umber around the waterfall area only..it helped focus because of the high chroma of it. I did touch up some more since this posting of it.
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 28, 2011, 08:51:39 PM
Geeeee, Pat, you did a wonderful job on this one.  O0
Love the water, love the rocks, just beautiful.
Title: Re: Waterfall
Post by: nolan on September 28, 2011, 08:57:51 PM
It beautiful Pat  :clap:

Just love the spotlight effect you have achieved here - good to see the lessons are paying off  :yippee:

Liz, I love many different painting styles as each have their own unique challenge to overcome. That is what is so great about art - there are so many different ways to do the same thing and so many ways to do the same thing differently  ;D There really are only a few "right" ways to do things O0
Title: Re: WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 28, 2011, 08:59:55 PM
Pat... don't fiddle too much more  :knuppel2: you've got a beauty here. Put down the brush and go sit on your hands.

You have created a wonderful 'spotlight' effect which just draws you right into the waterfall, and your use of colour in the water as it cascades over and around the rocks and flows away from the waterfall. Stop!
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 28, 2011, 09:23:33 PM
...CAN'T stop...anyway, here it is..I softened the water on the fall here and there and it DOES make a difference. I also put in some dark cerulean blue around the very edge of the shore on the right all along it...to make it appear deep water (and also near the front of the fall. It really does make a difference now.
I can't open the image..don't know if you can or not...but it will open if you right click and "open in new tab"
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on September 29, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
This is somehow sharper. Looks better in my opinion.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 12:17:31 AM
Kelley it is because of the camera...the painting is sharper actually.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: EllaNZ on September 29, 2011, 03:32:49 AM
You are so brave to take on this sort of challenge  :envy: One day I'll try, maybe on the holidays in December. You inspired all of us to go to greater challenges. Your work is beautiful, I love it!  :clap: :clap: :hug:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 29, 2011, 09:36:53 AM
 :clap:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: C.Bodine on September 29, 2011, 01:31:34 PM
Pat,
  I love the way you did this painting! Just beautiful!    :clap:  Tina
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 03:48:07 PM
Thanks Ella, Val and C.B.   I did continue fussing with it since this post another hour. Perhaps a few very small minor changes, very minor...you know I'm  my own worst critic, but I still think it's good at this point. No way am I going to do anything more. You get to the point where you just want to put it away and if I would do any more to it, I'd be so hasty to just hang it up. Can't believe though I was doing things for a good hour or more and didn't even realize I wasn't using the photo to go by. I do that often near the final touches.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Anya on September 29, 2011, 04:27:40 PM
Pat this is a fantastic painting. I love the colors and the warmth from the sunlight that you acheived.

Beautiful, beautiful work!!
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 06:21:09 PM
Thanks Anya..I appreciate the comments so much...I'm soaking this in ;D
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: nolan on September 29, 2011, 08:23:03 PM
yep, rip that old painting out the frame and get this one in O0
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 09:24:12 PM
Thanks Tina..didn't see your real name till just now.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 29, 2011, 09:59:43 PM
I would like to see this painting in a frame and hung.....any chance of that Pat?
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 10:05:46 PM
I guess Val. I'll wait another couple days though. Wish it was a better frame. Michael's don't have very good selection. From now on, I'm going to just order a nicer one. With shipping it's still cheaper than Michael's for a nice looking one.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 29, 2011, 10:09:03 PM
That will look good in almost anything.  O0
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 10:13:32 PM
Thanks Val...it's weird though, every painting I do, I fiddle to where I'm sick of it..including this one (i didn't post it since I did some more fiddling on it, but I still think it's ok looking). When you start getting just plain tired of it, it doesn't look as good as before..that is why one can mess something up real easy. You're mental and emotional focus is no longer into it. So when I finish most anything, it's a little like a reminder of a not that pleasant experience when I look at any of my paintings. Sure, I'm proud of them, but just saying that they remind me of a struggle that just kind of faded out at the end and got bored. Dennis said, other's see your paintings differently than the one who painted them and don't see the little parts you fiddled with..I believe that to an extent. Not totally convinced though :whistle:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 29, 2011, 10:31:06 PM
Believe it Pat. If you hadn't told us what you had done, all we'd see is a wonderful painting of a waterfall and surroundings. Its the same as when Lloyd does a gelcoat repair on the boat...it never looks quite right to him, why? Because he knows where it is and what was wrong in the first place. Anyone else that comes aboard doesn't even know there was a problem. Sounds familiar huh?
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 10:50:11 PM
...still creeps me out knowing it's there. But then, this forces one to make more advances while painting each time. (unseen by anyone else of course...but it's there.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 29, 2011, 10:53:04 PM
Learning to let go....that also takes time.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 10:58:18 PM
Right, I might never get over beginning a painting. But the more you do, it kind of gets a little better as far as not worrying so much if it'll turn out good or bad. It's just another painting and not as important as your first one, or first 5, etc.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on September 29, 2011, 11:01:33 PM
I think you just jumped to the head of the line! I'm still half in that 'its all important to me' mindset. I find it fairly easy to move on...but while I'm actually working on it...thats another story.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 29, 2011, 11:16:37 PM
Man, am I gonnna get shot for this comment but, here goes.
I can see your blue you tried to use for water depth... in my opinion, it should have been a darker green.
I liked it better before you added that blue.

SORRY, I didn't mean to be bad...   :surrender:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 29, 2011, 11:20:20 PM
No problem thegrinde. I did go over this after I posted since. Still blue pretty much but not as obvious I don't think..have to look at it. I'll take photo of it in a frame in a couple days again. I'm not worried about this.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 29, 2011, 11:44:48 PM
Shoeee, I think I dodged that bullet.  :heeha:
Pat, that's a fine painting and you did a wonderful job. Much better then I could do and I'm looking forward to the 'final' showing.  O0

Keep up the great work, my friend...
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: liz on September 30, 2011, 12:00:33 AM
Rick, it's okay- we like to hear comments from each other!  :)  :painting: Actually, I liked Pat's waterfall when he put his first efforts into it in his partially painted first post.  The water was greener then and he was off with a running start! :clap:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 30, 2011, 12:27:51 AM
Sometimes those subtlties are due to the photo processing. I did add a hint of blue in the water and added alot of pure white later on though, not sure if that even showed. I still feel a very nagging feeling from it since i touched it up more though. I know one area that I made worse..hopefully it's minor enough that it doesn't matter, but other areas I think i improved a hair. Not even worth all that really..it's all minor.  The area to the left of the fall, I feel bad about because it's so hastly done. I didn't try to get any crisper lines for trees, branches etc...just a mess of slashed in lines. And you know what..I'll do it again and again.(I might grab a fast green and just dab a touch in there to break it up..nothing more) Sometimes you just have to really be brave and do those things without much thought to it.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 30, 2011, 02:22:10 AM
Thanks, Liz. I'd really hate to hurt anybodies feelings. I know some things can be taken the wrong way on occasion. I also know that none of us mean to do that on purpose.

I guess if they post it in the Encourager section, that makes it open game, right?  :2funny:  :2funny:

 :oops: , Pat's got this one under General Chat...  :2funny:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Anya on September 30, 2011, 02:47:40 AM
I personally want to hear honest constructive critiques when I post something. It's nice to hear praise but it's much more important for me to grow and improve and keep learning so I want to hear other's opinions on how to do that.

If we share our thoughts in a gracious way we shouldn't worry about hurting each other's feelings.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on September 30, 2011, 04:02:12 AM
Pat, are you going to frame the Waterfall?
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on September 30, 2011, 10:45:30 AM
Ya, I feel that way, too. If I post and ask for comments, suggestions and ideas, I want to hear what you guys really think about it.  O0
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on September 30, 2011, 01:43:43 PM
Yes Kelley, I'm going to frame it ..take out the old one and put this one in it instead. Wish it was a better frame than it is. Poor selection at Michael's store.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 01, 2011, 05:27:33 PM
That's good news my friend! Please post a quick pic of the framed waterfall.  I understand the poor selection at Michael's unless you get a custom frame for $$.  Speaking of Michael's, I am going to attempt to go to today (no Hobby Lobby nearby) to see about brushes, frames and other supplies.  I finally got the clear plastic to mask so I am going to finish the tulip hopefully this weekend and start on the rose.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 01, 2011, 07:20:53 PM
Kelley, where did you get the plastic cover for the masking at? I haven't checked anywhere for it yet. I used masking tape last time. I'll take a photo of it in frame tomorrow. In a hurry today.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 02, 2011, 04:29:53 AM
Bought a 12X36 inch roll of Duck brand clear laminate at Wal-mart for under $6.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: nolan on October 02, 2011, 07:38:31 PM
if the person has asked for feedback and comments, it's important to tell the truth about what you feel can be improved. It is however vital that we do it in a constructive way, eg., I feel your water was better when it had more green in it, the blue has now made it too dark.

That way the person can analyze your comments and have a possible solution if they agree with your analysis.

We never criticize anybody's paintings as that breaks the person down, we are here to build.

The way everybody has been commenting here is great  :yippee:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 02, 2011, 08:01:35 PM
Kelley, is that for the grid method. Or is that stuff you got for the masking (has a sticky side to it)?
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on October 02, 2011, 08:30:17 PM
Three cheers  :yippee:  :yippee:  :yippee: for everybody helping each other.  :clap:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 02, 2011, 09:55:55 PM
Ok, got it framed now. Really focuses on the painting with a frame on it!
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on October 02, 2011, 10:56:16 PM
WOOT!!!  :D That's terrific!!! Very nice job, Pat.   :yippee:  O0  :clap:
I love it...  ;)
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on October 03, 2011, 12:09:57 AM
 :clap:  Amazing how different it looks just by adding the frame. Well done.  O0
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 03, 2011, 12:30:35 AM
Thanks thegrinde and Val. I really am proud of this one. Any painting you're never sure exactly of the outcome and this turned out nice. It really does look very cool in the frame. Now to invite some friends over so they can see it.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Anya on October 03, 2011, 01:38:55 AM
Looks Fantastic Pat !!
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 03, 2011, 02:03:39 AM
Nolan, it is the sticky part that I will use to mask the canvas.  I have parchment paper, but it may be too thin to do the grid.  I am also concerned about the size of the printed flower which is more or less 8X11 off my printer.  I want to make it much larger.  This is what the grid matching is for then?  To match square to square what you have and what I must draw?
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 03, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
Pat, my eyes are drawn immediately to the center of the waterfall and tend to follow the water flow. The colours you chose for the water turned out super in the overall painting.  The frame tops it perfectly.  Congratulations  :clap:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: thegrindre on October 03, 2011, 02:51:01 AM
Kelly, you can 'grid' your photo anyway you want to. Big or small squares. Doesn't matter. The trick is to duplicate it to your canvas then draw what you see in each square.
Let's say you grid your photo with 12 by 12 grid squares. Now, put the same amount on your canvas but, it too has to have the same 12 by 12 on it.
In other words, if you divide your photo into 12 equal parts, you have to do the same with your canvas.
Then just draw/paint what you see in each square and it'll automatically come out.

Hope this helps,
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 03, 2011, 05:48:27 AM
I understand the concept thegrindre.  I've done it in quick illustrations, but not to this detail.  Ought to be a good learning experience.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: nolan on October 03, 2011, 08:29:43 AM
Kelley the grid I gave you guys will fit a 16x20 canvas perfectly, just divide your canvas up into 1inch blocks and then redraw all the outlines of the major objects O0

Pat - The frame compliments the painting nicely  :clap:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on October 03, 2011, 11:10:10 AM
Pat, I'd love to be one of your invited friends for the viewing...unfortunately it's a bit of a swim!  :2funny:
Don't be surprised if someone wants it for their own.  O0
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 03, 2011, 05:20:52 PM
You're welcome anytime Val. Thanks everyone on this one. Kelley, I'm not sure...is that the sticky masking clear plastic you got at Wal-Mart? Let me know if it works well to cut thru it.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 04, 2011, 05:34:21 AM
Thank you Nolan!
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Val on October 06, 2011, 11:17:57 AM
 :wave:
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 06, 2011, 01:42:45 PM
I'm confused about the grid sheets you got at Wal-Mart Kelley. Is it with sticky side to it, or is it just for tracing out?
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 09, 2011, 02:01:28 AM
It is sticky. Not quite for laminating, but can be used to line kitchen drawers.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 09, 2011, 02:07:00 AM
Kelley, I got some at Hobby Lobby today. What department in Wal-Mart did you get it? It's the stuff with the waxy backing that peels off?
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 09, 2011, 02:14:13 AM
My wife purchased it in the household goods department. I haven't opened it, but it is probably the type of paper you are thinking - kinda like what you would find on a sticker.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: C.Bodine on October 09, 2011, 03:09:42 AM
I think it is in the household section where you get liner for cabinets or shelf liner.  I think it is called clear contact paper.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: Kelley on October 09, 2011, 05:25:14 AM
Duck brand clear laminate (acid free, non-yellowing). It says to consider permanent, but I am not sure how this will work on canvas.  I will be using it shortly and will report results.
Title: Re: Pat's WaterFall
Post by: patindaytona on October 09, 2011, 12:50:20 PM
Ok Kelley. Household..have to remember that.