Selling Your Art Course

[Kathysutterlin]

I very much appreciate your opinion, Robert. Thanks for all the back ground info. 

I'm glad you shared your website. 

[Annie.]

Thank you Robert, but please note that my reply was framed as a question.  As I am not an expect on any art topics.  Thanks for your clear explanation.

This is what I have done so far, with modern 'permanent' ink.  It is not on the cotton of the canvas but on the gessoed extension of the front that is wrapped around the stretcher bars.  Probably still not good enough, but again, unlike most of my fellow artists, I am not aspiring to be discovered and art is for my own enjoyment and maybe a bit for some close friends.

Details

[artistforsaleorrent]

[Annie.]

Yes this painting was dutifully copyright.  It was circumvoluted and I do not claim I fully understand why, as I thought giving the painting with a  simple written permission for them to use for publicity should have suffice.

I was happy it was my painting of course, and this is the extend of me being... discovered ?  I actually did not like it, not my style.  I just followed their spec and did it at their request... not many offer to give a painting from established artists 😕   I am fully aware it is not recommended to do that and I understand the implications, but I am okay with it. 

[artistforsaleorrent]

[Annie.]

A painting usually has a single owner for a certain period of time. And since they own that painting, they can do anything they want with it, including having a print shop photograph it and copy the image onto any material they so choose, without your permission- copyrighted or not,--- unless of course, your contract for the sale of the painting involves verbiage that precludes such action without your permission.

  That cannot be correct.  I cannot buy one of Nolan's painting and them go make giglees of it.  I canot even print greeting cards from a painting I did following one of the classes on PB.

The copyright remain, by default, with the artist.   In Canada there is an obscure exception for commissioned portrait.  Canadian artists who do portrait on commission are careful to attach a clear understanding of who has permission to do what... just in case.

[Annie.]

As for the self mailed image, would an electronic date stamped attached to the photo do the same.  I would like to know what a lawyer would say to that.

[artistforsaleorrent]

Actually Annie,

I have donated paintings for seven years at this point, to the Jason Plite Memorial Foundation, free of charge to the organization who then silently auctions them off to obtain proceeds to fund college scholarships for deserving high school students. And truth be told, these paintings go without legal representation - no contract, just a belief that these paintings will "find a home" and stay there for enjoyment not for further profit. I do receive a statement to use should I determine that I could use these as a "tax write off, a donation so to speak" after the yearly event, but have never done so to date.

The generalized contract I posted while you were posting your note might very well not apply for that specific event, but I urge all reading this continuing conversation, to thoughtfully consider using a contract such as this if you don't already do so, and to pass this on to many of the Paint Basket members who may not be so inclined or knowledgeable of the business aspects of Art. And while I'm not at all acquainted with New Zealand copyright specifics, I am inclined to believe that such a contract would protect you folks as well.

Feel free to connect should questions arise.
Robert

[Annie.]

Friends,

After penning this reply to Annie and while sitting outside in our screened-in porch, smoking a cigarette and drinking my second cup of coffee, I suddenly came to the abrupt thought that many of you might not have the slightest idea what your legal rights may involve before and after you sell a painting while commissioned, from a gallery, or at an art fair?

I fully agree.  My most important concern is actually not infringe on any one else copyright and intellectual property, both at work and in my artistic pursue.

I will know leave the discussion to established artists... but will keep reading.

Kathy you started a great discussion with your question about your signature.

[artistforsaleorrent]

[Annie.]

There is a clear Agreement (last post on the forum) that you have agreed to when you sign in.  Also the following is part of any classes and I find it very clear, fair, and straighforward.  I copied one randomly.   

Of course people can steal, but it doesn't make it any legal because they don't get caught.     I also have a beef when I hear something like  "it may not be ethical, but it is legal so I do it"... makes me boil inside.  I am sure most artists conduct themselves in a highly professional manners, and the bad ones are the exceptions.

Publisher Artist and Author
Paint Basket Ltd Nolan Clark
14 Ian Sage Ave
Torbay
New Zealand http://www.paintbasket.com
Legal

The author and publisher have made their best effort to provide a high quality, informative
document. However, they make no representation or warranties of any kind with regard to
completeness or the accuracy of the contents of this text. They accept no liability of any kind for
any losses or damages caused or alleged to be caused, directly or indirectly, from using the
information contained herein.
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Still Life Painting Essentials
Copyright 2012, All Rights Reserved.

No part of this publication may be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, or reproduced in any
way, including but not limited to digital copying and printing without prior agreement and written
permission from the authors.

Please Note
This book is for personal use only and is part of a course available at http://www.paintbasket.com

[Kathysutterlin]

  Oh Yes, Robert and Annie. This is a most interesting and informative topic. I have nothing more to add as you both covered the topic of copyright thoroughly. Many thank yous. I am enjoying the education much. 

[Annie.]

Kathy,
You can learn even more with Dennis.

In the Forum, under Other, see Copyright Questions:  Dennis write 6 articles (part 1 to part 6) on this subject.  They are excellent to get all the basic you need to avoid legal problem, and tips to also protect your work.

[artistforsaleorrent]

Thank you. I was unaware of these documents, even though they don't apply to those not taking Nolan's classes , those who are offering their expertise and sage advice to those of you who are either just starting out or are mature enough to request additional technique advancement. However, this is the world wide web and I suspect unscrupulous individuals within or without can "borrow and augment" anything we post without ramifications other than getting "kicked off this web site". Real world ethics may apply, notwithstanding the integrity of members, but our original conversation was about copyrighting a single painting.

As for the legalese by Nolan in signing up to participate, that's obviously for those who participate in his classes and is quite valid per say copyright issues but we weren't discussing his artwork. I started this concerning your own use of the circle c which you readily explained was handled by the other lawyer... Case closed. However, I still maintain that any artist here should 1)have a contract with anyone they do business with and 2) if a contract is necessary, make sure the reproduction rights are protected.

When I was the owner and manager of the Eons.com Art School (now defunct of which many many members came here for further art instruction which is also how I personally found you), we had one fellow who made screen shots of some obscure yet very accomplished artists and claimed them to be his own. Several of the 200 plus members notified me that they'd been to other web sites which showed the exact same artwork done by other hands. And while I could somewhat understand a youngster wanting to impress us oldsters and quite possibly obtain "work" as a result of these false claims, I nonetheless contacted the "powers that be" of Eons.com and had his account deleted immediately. I'm sure Nolan, as artist and administrator is busy enough actually administering this entire site, plus trying to create art which increases his financial status outside this web address, to be as observant as I was and would address these matters quietly and quickly. But this leaves us from the question of copyright establishment and/or infringement.

My question for all reading this... what happens to your artwork after it has been sold to an individual and do you have any resources to prevent it from becoming "Public domain"?
Robert

[nolan]

Kathy - your new slanted signature is great as it contains a slant that is unique and unusual

Annie - your signature is fine

First and last name in signature - I don't agree that you need to use your first and last name in your signature. If there is ever any doubt about the originality of your artwork, or if it is fake, there are other methods to test. Any forger will be able to sign your name perfectly no matter how long it is. Experts will be able to tell if your artwork has been forged by looking at things like the brush strokes used, materials used, etc.

Copyright - The minute you produce an original artwork, it is automatically protected by copyright. This means that you do not have to register each artwork at the copyright office.

Proving you own the copyright into a manuscript / book is as simple as posting it to yourself and then never opening it again. To post a photo, etc. to yourself is pointless as it only proves you had access to the artwork at the time of posting.

Further when you sell an artwork, you retain the copyright into that artwork and do so until the copyright expires, it does NOT transfer to the buyer unless agreed to in writing. This means that the buyer is NOT free make or sell prints of the artwork, etc.

You however CAN make and sell prints of a sold artwork. You don't need permission or anything from the buyer of the original as you own the copyright into the artwork. Having said that I feel it is only fair that you inform the buyer of the artwork that you will be / are selling prints, etc. of the artwork BEFORE they buy the artwork. My recommendation now and in the course is that the artwork you are going to make prints of are kept in your personal collection for three reasons : a) This makes the prints exclusive b) If you ever need to re-photograph the artwork you can, c) you as the artist have the original which makes it very easy to prove then that you own the copyright into the artwork.

Copyright in your artwork expires depending on the laws of your country, but is usually between 50 and 100 years after your death. After that date anybody is free to use the artwork to make prints or anything else.